Chris and Tracy interview author and coach Tod Bolsinger. Tod has years of experience in pastoral and academic leadership, and he offers challenges for today’s learners. His books dare leaders to see how things are not just as they have always been. It is time for adjusting. It is time for learning. It is time for change. Tod addresses adaptive leadership, offering guidance on how to lead when there are no examples to follow. Instead of building church in our own image, we can relearn leadership. Leaders are formed in the process of leading. Listen to his honesty and his wisdom, and tell your friends about today’s podcast.